History of Poker

I play “tournament Texas holdem” online poker against “tough” competition and play the largest tournament. I’ve played 21 times. My record is 4 final tables, 5 times in the money and won the tournament 2 times. I thought I was doing pretty well. But, I then went to pokerpages.com and took Tom McEvoy’s test and only got 7 questions right out of 20. Pretty much the same with his tournament test also. I was disappointed. It seems to me that I am playing tighter than he says I should. I’m confused. I guess I should enter one of the weekly tournaments at the Trop in A.C. and see how I do. Can anyone comment on how well the TTM software represents real tournament action? I’ve never played in a tournament before, so I am clueless.

Roxy Palace casino has the best casino slots UK. I got 15, but I don’t consider myself an especially good player. It does seem as if I share this McEvoy guy’s “strategy”, considering the comments received once the test is finished.

I’ve never played Turbo Texas Hold ‘Em, but I’ve played the World Series of Poker game and other computer poker games that are supposed to represent reasonably tough competition. It’s been my experience that computer poker games are very easy to master, and I would guess that even the best computer game (whether it’s TTH or anything else) would not be nearly as difficult to beat as your average 10-20 game. McEvoy’s quiz is only a quiz. I could probably form a much better judgment about your game watching you play for 15 minutes than from a score on a quiz. That said, I do think that 7 out of 20 is somewhat low. You worry that you’re playing too tight. Possible, but highly unlikely. Very few poker players play too tight. Many of the situations in McEvoy’s quiz call for a raise or re-raise–perhaps you’re playing too passive? When it comes to online casino betting you want to play at a casino that is going to give back to you. Just a thought.

The Wilson tournament game is very easy, especially on no limit. The computer players play too tight late in the tourney and you can rob them blind. The Masque game is quite a bit tougher but I agree that no computer game is very strong.

A couple of questions.
1) Why does everybody here hate Phil Hellmuth so much?
2) What does runner, runner mean?
Answer 1:

>1) Why does everybody here hate Phil Hellmuth so much?
I don’t think anybody here hates Phil, he just receives a lot of criticism and abuse for his sometimes immature behavior during and after poker tournaments. He gets a lot of press, and doesn’t present the kind of image of the poker world that most of us would like to see.
>2) What does runner, runner mean?
Two running (consecutive) cards. In other words, having 3 spades to a flush on the flop, and hitting a spade on the turn and another on the river to make the flush.

Answer 2:

First and they are called the community cards. The next card the dealer turns over is now called the “turn” card or the 4th card. The next card the dealer turns over is now called the “river” card, or the 5th card. Runners, Runner are the 4th and 5th cards.
Answer 3:

Actually the flop and the turn are licensed because I looked it up on the website. Is the river licensed? Can anybody tell me if the river is licensed you defensive pieces of shit? All I am doing is asking a simple question. You all suck, I can’t believe how hostile this newsgroup is. I am taking my lame question and going home.

A question from the poker pages quiz: Two players limped in, you have a 7-5 off-suit in the small blind, and you decide to call. The big blind then raises. What is your play? Calling the half bet was marginally acceptable, but calling a full raise with a 7-5 does not give you the pot odds to justify a call. There’s a lot of assumptions in this question that don’t get clearly stated. First is that the other two players call the raise. Sometimes they don’t. A raise from the big lind from a competent player has to be respected. Second, there’s no information about the blind structure. If the blinds are 5 and 10, the pot odds should be equal (7:1.) If they’re 10 and 15, the pot odds for calling a raise (7:1) are *much* worse than finishing up the blind (10:1.) OTOH, if they’re 5 and 15, the odds for calling a raise (still 7:1) are actually better than those for calling in the SB (5:1.) Of course, if I did play 57o in the small blind, I would generally muck to a raise in the big blind unless I know I’m dealing with a total maniac. A good player will often check in the big blind with hands as good as QQ. In this case, two of your three competitors are almost certainly going to stay in. By checking, you get to see the flop cheaply and, if you still have an over pair or better after the flop (a 77% probability, about 3:1,) you can disguise the strength of your hand. So, I fold, but not because of pot odds.

Answer 1:

The first assumption about the other two limpers calling the raise from the big blind is normally valid. It would be rare for someone to limp in for a full bet and then not call a raise from behind. It is true that the big blind is marked with a good hand but it is not that much different than if you limped in under the gun with say pocket Eights and then the next guy raises and everyone folds to you. Of course you will call the early position raise and take a flop for one more bet. There is information about the blind structure but not in the question rather in the answer. McEvoy is apparently assuming that the small blind is one-half a bet, like a $10-$20 game rather than 2/3 of a bet as in a $15-$30 game or 1/3 of a bet as in a $3-$6 game. Your observation about the pot odds are of course valid since they are exactly the same when the small blind is 1/2 a bet. In a $15-$30 game it is common to see a player limp in for another $5 from his small blind and then fold when the big blind raises. Pot odds can come into play here. Frankly, I would fold 7-5 off-suit from my small blind and not even call for 1/2 of a bet. Make it suited and I would call and then call a big blind raise if I had to.

Answer 2:

I’ve been playing limit hold’em for about 9 years now, and I can honestly say I’ve NEVER folded 7-5 off-suit in the small blind for 1/2 a bet. Also, I’ve never called with it, and then folded to a raise from the big blind. I find it impossible to resist 7-1 odds pre-flop with a 7-5. Try using Mike Caro’s poker probe, and you may be surprised how often that hand will win against two limpers and a big blind. 7-1 is certainly an overlay. I ran 7-5 against some possible limipng hands and a random big blind 50,000 times. I used 9s-10d, Js-Kh, 5c-7d and a random hand. Now, you would be getting 7-1 so 14.3% would be break even without considering your disadvantage of being first to act. How often do you think the 7- 5 won?
The K-J won %36.66
The 9-10won %24.50
The 5-7 won %20.25
The ?? won %18.59
Now try running it with the big blind holding two aces, you’ll be
surprised what you may find.
The A-A won %57.34
The 5-7 won %17.10
the 9-10won %14.47
the K-J won %11.09
Next time you get 7-5 in the SB, think twice about how tight you may be playing, and gamble a little!!
Answer 3:

That is certainly good information and I guess I have been playing a little too tight here. I suppose even if you made the hands a little stronger like giving one limper pocket Eights, another limper King-Queen off-suit, and maybe the big blind AA,KK,QQ, or AK you might still get the same results since the cards needed to improve 7-5 are not impacted that much by the other hands. I am not familiar with poker probe and what the underlying assumptions are. Does it reflect how the hand is likely to get played or does it just assume that 7-5 gets to see all the board cards at no cost? In actual play it is easy to get away from the hand when the flop misses you completely and of course if you flop a good draw, two pair, trips, a straight, etc. it is also easy to play. But I have found that what frequently happens is that you catch a piece of flop like bottom pair or middle pair so the pot is large but your outs are few and you tend to not get full value from the hand when you have the best of it and you frequently lose a lot when you get lured into staying and taking cards off.

I heard a rumor that somebody at the WSOP borrowed $4,000 and won $850,000 in A No Limit Game? This supposedly happened last week. Does anybody know anything about this story?

Answer 1:

I don’t know if that’s a growth of something that did happen ten or so days ago wherein a person did buy in to a NL game for a few k and cash out 250.

Answer 2:

It was a player from Texas named Hecter. I heard he started in the big pot limit Omaha game with $8k lost most of that, borrowed $5k from a friend and another $5k from same friend (who I was playing with and told me directly). Hecter came and paid back the $10k and said that he had cashed out a big winner (I heard just under $200k). He then jumped into a very big NL HL game and, when I came own the next day to play in the 12 noon tournament he had about million dollars more or less depending on who you listen to. The following day I noticed a half HE, half Omaha game with a big blind structure and many strong players (including Johnny Chan) and hecter was in there ramming and jamming. I left my game at about 8 that evening and went by his table to see how much of his money had gone bye. It looked to me that he had about $75 more of their money.

Answer 3:

This is that’s been going around the floor. Last week Hector, a Texas restaurant owner, was stuck $150,000 in a game. He was down to his last $4,000 when he went on a rush and won $800,000. Whether that’s a net or gross $800,000 I don’t know.

The game is Stud H/L live game and on Fourth Street you hold A-2-3-6 with no suit. On Third Street 3 players put in one full bet. Player A’s board reads K-K and you are CERTAIN that player has three kings. Player B’s board shows 8-6, and you assume he holds a four card low. The question is, if the K-K bet on fourth street and the 8-6 raises making it two bets to you, what would be the correct mathematical play? You have virtually no chance to win the high, and the other opponent most likely holds 5-6-7-8 or a hand similar. So, should you invest the two bets on four even though you are probably only drawing to half the pot?
A similar question came up later. Say on fifth street you hold the A-2-3-6-9 and are against an obvious high K-K-4, and an obvious 8 low 8-6- 4. If the K-K bet and the 8-6-4 raise should you call? Again you assume the K-K has three and the 8 is already made. If you do call, if the K-K-4 is full, you may have to face as many as 5 bets on Fifth Street, and possibly five more on Sixth Street.

Answer 1:
I think this is a definite call. If you make your low next card, especially a 6, you and the kings are going to be able to whipsaw the guy still drawing…a juicy (and profitable) situation if the kings will play with you. I’d call the raise, and hope the kings aren’t full. Even if they are, and you are correct in reading your low opponent, any low you make is probably going to be good. Maybe I’m fishy, but I’m going to take that whipsawing (if it happens) and take one off. I might even go to the end if the 864 catches bad and my low cards are still very live.

Answer 2:

Your immediate odds suck. Your paying 2 bets to win 3+ (6 + ante in the pot) with a chance of a re-raise behind you and your something like a 1:2 dog to make a low. The problem I see is that if you can read KK for trips and the low straight draw can read you for a low and KK for trips then you don’t have any implied odds to make up for the crappy immediate odds. I think it’s a fold. If the 8-6 is one that normally goes too far with his hands you might have a really thin call, but I think that’s more fantasy then reality. So you called the 2 and KK didn’t jam? There are 7.5 bets (3.5) + ante in the pot and its 2 to you. A close fold. The ante is probably enough to make the call marginally correct but the made right and made low are going to jam up the pot. Drawing to half the pot against two made hands that are:
(1) Going to jam it up and
(2) Can see you improve is death.

Answer 3:

I think both situations are pretty clear FOLDs. I would want some decent scoop potential to continue in this situation. For example, if instead I held 2-3-4-5 with three suited up in a live suit and the aces and remaining sixes are live then I would give it a shot.

I’ll be in Paris for a few days in June. What games and stakes do they play in the card club there?

Answer 1:

Go to www.pokerpages.com and search the worldwide directory. Search by country France and then click on the link to the cash games. You will find what you are looking for. Incidentally, The Aviation Club in Paris is exceptional. If you have chances do not miss it.

Answer 2:

The Aviation club is running a good tournament in mid-June and I expect to run over for it since I’ll be in London during that time. Want to take the Chunnel for a while.

Answer 3:

They play pretty much all games — with the size of the game governed by the buy-in — it’s pretty much all PL and NL over there. I actually found a small club in the Marais district with a lively 1200FF buy in PL hold’em game last year.

Can someone tell me what they mean by outs in a poker game?????

Answer 1:

Ways in which your hand can be improved to become the best hand in the pot (catching the specific cards you need to win, best hand folds from the game). And, quit yelling.

Answer 2:

“OUTS” or more commonly “outs” are ways you can win. For example, if you have a four flush with one card to come, the remaining cards of your suit which have not been exposed are the number of outs you have. In common parlance, this is how a conversation would go. You caught a 2 to make your Aces over 2s become 2s full on the River. Your opponent, who led on Fifth Street with an Ace flush, berated you by saying, “You play that cheese!” You respond with, “Well, I had four outs to beat you
so I figured I’d pay you off on Sixth Street and fold on the River if I didn’t fill up.” He responds with, “You’re an even bigger moron than I thought. You didn’t have four outs. Three of your cards had already been folded. You caught the case deuce. You didn’t have four outs you had one!!!” You respond with something clever like, “Oh, I guess I got lucky.”

Answer 3:

An out is a card that will improve your hand. If you are on a draw it is a card that makes your hand, if you hold a pocket pair your outs are the two remaining cards of that rank. Also, if all-in in a hand which you are currently losing, an out is a card that will outdraw your opponent. Example: You are all-in with JhTh vs. opponents QcQs. The board is 5h7h2c. You have nine outs in the shape of the nine remaining hearts.

Looking around for ways to spend my time in what I am sure is a bustling, sophisticated metropolis of nearly 500 people, I learned that there is a casino near there. I don’t know whether they have any poker tables, but I am hopeful. I play in a semi-regular game with friends, mostly 7CS with occasional HE or Omaha. I usually do well in those games, ($2 limit, I have averaged about $5 ahead per hour) but I am sure that casino poker is a much different game. What should I do to prepare for an expedition to a real casino? I have about a month. The only book on the topic I have read is “Thursday Night Poker” by Peter O. Steiner (I think, I don’t have a copy here to make sure I correctly remember the author.) What other book or books would be most useful to me? Is there any way I can practice? (Good computer programs, &c.?)

Answer 1:

I liked Skalansky’s Theory of Poker. It is differently for the more advanced player and would be a good book to read before going to any casino. General Advice – Play limits you can afford. Watch the game for awhile before you play and look for games you can beat before you sit. You can find the book t http://www.twoplustwo.com

Answer 2:

It depends on how much time you have before your trip (how many hours you will devote to studying). If few, I recommend the pamphlet-sized book ‘Fundamentals of Poker’ by Malmuth. There is just too much to learn (especially from a comprehensive poker book) to try and become knowledgeable enough to know what you are doing in the casino before you try. This book is short, sweet, and includes the main basics you will need. So does Yardley’s book “Education of a Poker Player”.

Answer 3:
You’re right to think that the casino game is different and “Thursday Night Poker” was written with the home game in mind. For a quick, easy read and fundamentally sound casino low limit 7CS game, I’d read George Percy’s “The Waiting Game”. It’s a little dated (read a little tight), but very good for the most part. It’s a good start, and like I said, quick, easy and sound.

I ran into a difficult hand situation which I would appreciate input on. On 5th st I have a 4 flush (2 flush showing), a player showing A, 7, 7 checks, 3 players fold, a player showing 5, Q, 5 bets. I call and the probable A’s up calls. Game continues with 5′s betting and the 2 pair and I calling all the way up the river. I make the flush but both the A’s up and I loose to the 5′s full. I question what the best play would have been in this situation. There are several ways to loose but only one way to win. Either the A,7,7 or the 5′s could have already had a FH and I’m drawing dead. If either player improves, I loose. The only way to win from 5th st is for me to improve while neither other player does. However, on 6th st the 5′s only has one hidden card to pair and make FH since he has 5, “?” in the hole, otherwise he must pair his board to make FH. Likewise, the A,7,7 can not make FH on 6th without me knowing. I didn’t make the flush till 7th st. After thinking about this hand I also question how it should be played if I were to have made the flush on 5th or 6th st. The 2 pair would probably fold but not the trips. Although I would have the best hand at the moment, if the trips improve, I loose. How should this be played? Are these just a couple of those close hands where betting and calling are the better play?

Answer 1:

Here’s some of the relevant math… Let’s say that your hand was [Ks-10s]-8h-4s-2s, and the opposing hands were [As-x]-Ah-7d-7c and [5s-x]-5h-Qd-5c, and all other cards random… First of all, you can make your flush only less than 1/3rd of the time, and even when you DO make you flush, most of those flushes will LOSE. Overall, the odds are worse than 6-to-1 against…OK?!

Answer 2:

When the fives paired his door card I’m gone with only a flush draw. If I had a reason to get tricky and present a very aggressive image, or if the guy with the pair of 5s showing is a very weak player I might raise with my flush draw. But against regular solid players or unknown players I’m gone. I might be in third place. I’ll save my chips for another hand.

Answer 3:

I would have folded when I saw the five pair his door card. I would have definitely folded on sixth since you did not make your
flush. With two people in, you probably are not getting better pot odds than 6 to 1, as barbara puts it. If we were to assume that the A77 had spit aces, he screwed up by not raising early and forcing out the pair of fives. Some questions… how many of your suit was out?? How many queens were dead? This may change the calculation, but not much.

I just started playing HE recently. A couple days ago I was playing 1-4-8 at Mandalay Bay and had a hand that involved pocket kings. Basically what happened was (please excuse the lack of knowledge regarding poker terms) in the pre-flop I had pocket kings. The 1st, 2nd, 3rd players after the blind mucked their cards. It got to the 4th player he raised 4, 5th player folded, I re-raised, the dealer and both blinds folded. 4th player called. The flop came up, 3, 7, J off-suits. 4th player raised the max, I re-raised, he called. Turn was a 2 o. He raised, I re-raised. The river came up, Qo. He raised, I re-raised, he called. He had two pairs J’s and Q’s. Needless to say, my pocket kings lost. Did I play that hand correctly, what would you guys have done differently?

Answer 1:
Just so you know, his original bets on the turn and river are called “bets” (not “raises”) because he was the first to bet on that round. You can’t raise unless someone has bet first in that betting round. As for your play:
Preflop: Good
Flop: Good
Turn: Good
River: Mistake. Once you raise on the flop and turn, there’s no way he will bet into you again unless he has AT LEAST two pair. Just call here.
Answer 2:

I, too, started playing HE recently and had a similar experience with pocket Kings yesterday in fact. I’m in next to last position, dealer to my left. I’m dealt the kings, two players before me call the bet ($2) and I raise. Button drops, blinds call, player immediately after the blinds calls and everybody else folds. Me and 3 other players and I’m in last position. Flop: 2d, Qc, 8h, no threatening draws, no over cards: (I’m already stacking the chips.) All check to me; I bet; they call. Turn: 3s. Everybody checks to me, I bet; they call.
Still in decent shape. Board looks harmless enough, (click, click, click I’m counting chips.) I’m River: 4d. Ouch! Small blind bets; other two fold; I call. He turns over 4,5 off-suit. \
Answer 3:
I guess you mean a 6d on the river. Anyways, you will see people calling the pre-flop in low limits. I, although I am a beginner, would never play the flop with 4, 5 off suit. They keep playing like that, especially against pocket kings, and I am sure they
will not last long at the table.